mentzer. democrats, mundy katowitz four years ago 900,000. today $24 million. this is big good evening, and welcome to a special live edition of "piers morgan tonight." and welcome my audience here in the studio. i can promise you, this will be like an hour you've never heard before with a man who is never afraid to say exactly what he

thinks. jesse ventura, the ex-navy s.e.a.l., superstar wrestler, and governor of minnesota. and a surprising theory on who he thinks is behind the anti-american violence in the middle east. and here he is, jesse ventura. good to see you. >> good to see you. good to see you. >> thank you. >> yeah. >> thank you. >> how are you, sir? >> well, i've got to get some water. i've got to get ready for you. i'm doing good. >> well, we've got an hour ahead of us. we'll cover a lot of ground. i want to start with the breaking news, the controversial and apparently secretly taped video of mitt romney at a private fundraiser. the person responsible wants to remain anonymous, but "new york" magazine reports it was passed along by jimmy carter's

grandson, james carter iv. cnn has not been able to verify the authenticity of the recordings, but let's take a listen. >> 47% of people who will vote for the president. the 47% with him who are dependent upon government who believe they're victims who believe the government has the responsibility to care for them who believe they're entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it. that's an entitlement and the government should give it to them and they'll vote for this president no matter what. people who pay no income taxes. >> the romney campaign released a statement. it reads, mitt romney wants to help all americans struggling the obama economy. as the government's made clear all year he's concerned about the growing number of people who are dependent on the federal government, including the record number of people on food stamps, nearly one in six americans in poverty and 23 million americans struggling to find work. mitt romney's plan creates 12 million new jobs in four years,

grows the economy, and moves americans off of government dependency and into jobs. jesse ventura, you were shaking your head, murmuring all sorts of profaniies under your breath there. clearly you're not impressed by mitt romney's claim, whichever way you look at this and whatever statements he puts out that half of the american people, well, as he put it, on the scrounge, not paying tax, victims, and living off the state. what do you make of that? >> well, let's start with taxes for a moment. do you realize as i cover in my book here that these major corporations pay lobbyists more than what they pay in taxes? these corporations, these corporations that make billions of dollars pay more to lobbyists than what they pay in taxes. and maybe one of the reasons mitt has that problem is because when did our ill-fortunes start? under bush and cheney and the republicans. and you're hearing this from an independent.

because i know enough to know that the economy what you have today in the economy is the result of decisions made about three, four, or five years ago. because that's how long it takes for them to get into this massive economy. so in my opinion, the republicans are the ones responsible. and when romney says he's going to create, well how many million jobs? >> 12 million -- >> that's total hogwash, and i'll tell you why, the only thing a government official can create is a government job. so if he's going to create 12 million new jobs, they're going to be paid for by taxes. jobs are created -- wait, jobs are created in the private sector. not by the president or the government unless they're government jobs. >> when it comes to job stimulation later in the show. but on this specific point, mitt romney's been found on tape at a private fundraiser, trying to raise cash, we think a few months ago. but this point that basically

everyone who votes for obama or the vast majority are victims, don't pay taxes, what we believe, this is just a theory, there's a theory you've got the 47%, may have come from the tax policy center, which found that 46.4% of households pay no federal income tax in 2011. but most households did pay payroll taxes. and the 18% of houses that paid neither income taxes or payroll taxes, the center found more than half of those were elderly and more than 1/3 not elderly had an income under $20,000. when you put it altogether like that, this is a bit of a clanger on mitt romney. this will be portrayed by the democrats, i think, very strongly from now until election as a guy dismissing half of america as people who are just victims living off the state. >> well, it shows me that mitt romney probably lives in a world that i don't live in. you know, he lives in a world i hear he's worth, what?

$250 million, and he comes from wealth. and most people i find that are born with that kind of money truly don't know what it's like to be out there. i mean, you know, i remember when i started years ago on my pro wrestling career when i'd just gotten out of the united states navy, i left with a beat up car and $250, and that's all i had to my name. when i went off to start my pro wrestling career. >> there's a segment from the obama campaign released saying it's shocking that the candidate for the president of united states would go behind doors and declare a group of wealthy donors that half the american people view themselves as victims. when you've written off half the nation. i mean, they've got a point. i think it's an embarrassing thing for mitt romney. however, he tried to spin this. >> well, it seems mitt romney lately has been saying a lot of embarrassing things.

you know, and you're not going to endear yourself to 47% of the country, and i would think it's going to be hard to win. but maybe the plan is that they've got these new voter registration laws where they can deny 45% of the country of the ability to vote. maybe that's their ultimate plan to only get to half the country and let only half the country vote in the first place. because on that note, this whole thing's a farce. voter fraud is a complete red flag. there's about as much voter fraud in this country as there is people struck by lightning bolts. i know that from a governor standpoint. voter fraud is nothing, and yet they're trying to give everybody an i.d. card. poor people would have to pay $35 to go get a state i.d. well, if you're that poor, $35 might be the difference between whether you eat that day or not. what do you think a person's going to do? they're going to go get food. if it's that bad. and i think the pathetic thing is that our country is in this kind of shape and who's responsible?

these two major parties. they've been in charge for 150 years. >> mitt romney's had a rough week because of the benghazi incident in which he was deemed by most people, including many on his own side to have jumped in with a critical statement of the president. really without knowing all the facts and turning -- when most people thought that was the wrong thing to be doing as an american politician at that time. >> well, absolutely. when our country's attacked in any way, shape or form, we need to pull together, we need to come together, not separate at that point. i mean, you want what i would do over there? i would do what the pinnacle of the republican party, the hero, whatever modern day ronald reagan did. do you recall back in the '80s when the barracks in lebanon was hit, did ronald reagan go to war? no, he got us the hell out of there.

and that's where i stand on this. if these people don't want us over there, let's close our embassies, i stand with ron paul, let's get rid of foreign aid altogether. because as ron paul put it, the definition of foreign aid, that's taking from america's poor and giving it to another country's rich. >> hang on. hang on, jesse. >> wait a minute. >> you wait a minute. it's my show. you wait a minute. let me just -- >> i'm talking. >> i'm challenging you. >> all right. >> i think that is taking one extreme and going to the other. it may well be that america has too many embassies, has too much say in too many countries. >> we're also broke. >> of course. -- >> how can we give to another country? >> we're not the only country. >> we're giving foreign aid. on a basic term for you people, that would be the equivalent, you're losing your house, you're three payments behind on your car, but your cousin bob from out of state needs to borrow $500 from you. are you going to send it?

when you can't even make your own house payment? we're broke. how in debt are we? >> well, you're certainly not as broke as many countries around the world. >> well, if they're worse and in more debt than us, i want to see a country that can say they have more debt than we do. >> america remains a superpower. and all superpowers, i believe, have a responsibility to other countries around the world. >> i don't. >> really? >> no. >> you don't think americans have any involvement in any country in the world? >> sure, we can have involvement if they ask us. since when should we be the world's policeman? why do we have military bases in 160-something countries? we have no -- no foreign country has a base here. imagine if hugo chavez decided to buy 1,000 acres of land by palm springs and move the venezuelan military in there? what do you think our reaction would be to that? yet we have multiple bases in korea, multiple bases in japan, multiple bases in germany.

and piers, last time i checked, those wars were over 60 years ago. why are we still there? >> well, the argument would be to prevent another war in that nation. why would you laugh at that? isn't that a reality? >> because our military -- >> -- harm america and its interest. >> because our military today is so advanced, we can be anywhere in the world in a matter of seconds. minutes or hours, we do not need to be an empire like rome occupying with our military throughout the world and if you've noticed, i'm getting nothing but nods out here, piers. >> you think america would be -- >> sure, we'd be safe. >> without any embassies in any country? >> i'm not saying necessarily to get rid of embassies. absolutely have embassies. but if these middle eastern countries are going to behave towards us the way they do, then let's get the hell out of there and leave them to their own. i urge people to read the

writings of major general butler. general butler died in the early '40s, but he won two congressional medals of honor. and he wrote a book called "war is a racket." and in that book, and this was way at the beginning of last century. he said i didn't defend the american people's freedom, i worked for the united fruit corporation. when they went into central and south america, if they didn't get cooperation, they'd sent in the u.s. marines to get it. enough of that. >> that wasn't true about the second world war, was it? >> probably not. >> definitely it wasn't. >> right. >> that was -- >> but you're apples and oranges here. you're apples and oranges here. >> no, we're not. >> how do you compare the second world war to -- >> you're -- >> to us being thing strong arm of multinational corporations. >> you were effectively telling this audience and the audience at home that wars are always of that nature. and they're not. the reality is sometimes you

have to oppress a bad guy, don't you? >> all right, okay. let's take my lifetime. i was born post world war ii, 1951. now, if you count the cold war and the war on drugs, which the war on drugs is a war i lived four months of the year in mexico, 20,000 mexicans, i believe, died last year as a result of the war on drugs. do you realize we've been at war my entire life? my entire life. we have been at war. is that the role of the united states? perennial war at war all the time? >> no. >> i've had enough of it. let's listen to jimmy hendrix for a moment who is on my shirt. quote from jimmy hendrix, the greatest guitar -- >> the first time i'm -- you say in the name of jimmy hendrix. >> jimmy hendrix, when the power of love overtakes the love of power, then we'll have peace. when the power of love overtakes the love of power, then we'll have peace.

>> on that musical bomb shell, we'll take a short bak. when we come back, apparently, i'm hesitant to confirm this yet, after the break, you're going to make a run for the white house in 2016. [ male announcer ] citi turns 200 this year.

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let's take a look. >> hello, i'm mitt romney. and i understand the hardships facing ordinary americans. for example, this summer one of my horses failed to medal at the olympics, so i know hardship. >> saturday night live having fun at mitt romney's expense. back with me now is jesse ventura. here live along with our studio audience. here's the thing, you can flip this around. everyone's having a laugh at mitt romney's expense and saying obama's stretching ahead in the polls and so on. but the reality is, barack obama's been there four years, unemployment remains at an incredibly unacceptable figure of over 8%. >> yeah. >> you've got lots of people suffering, losing homes, jobs, livelihoods. why should he get another four years? >> well, because -- >> however many gaffes mitt romney may be making -- >> yeah.

>> -- he is a very experienced, successful businessman. could he not do a better job? >> well, first of all, they posed the question, are you better off today than you were four years ago? i would say, yes. george bush and dick cheney are gone. so no matter what, we're better off today than we were -- >> let's rephrase the question and see how the audience reacts. how many in this audience personally, financially feel genuinely better off after four years? if you do, applaud. [ applause ] okay. and if you don't, applaud now. [ applause ] so it's probably about 50/50. >> i got that at about 70/30. >> let's put it at 60/40. maybe 60/40. but whatever it was, certainly a number of people in the room would agree they're not better off. >> okay. but let's get to brass tax here. i'm the independent.

in the economy, things that are done three, four, five years ago show up today. so when the recession of what we had hit, which barack obama inherited, bush did the first bailout. that was because it hit in '08 because of decisions done in '03/'04, when you had a republican president, republican house, and republican senate. why at the republican convention, and i ask you this question, why wasn't george bush allowed to speak, dick cheney allowed to speak? because they just left office 3 1/2 years ago after serving eight years, that's unconscionable that they weren't there. why? the republicans don't want anyone to remember who caused all this. [ applause ] i said to my wife -- wait, a the the '08 election, i said to my wife, you know, i wouldn't want -- you couldn't pay me to be the next president any amount of money because whomever it is is

going to get the blame for all of what george bush and dick cheney did. and that's precisely what you got. now, has obama fixed it? no. he has not. but is mitt romney the answer? going back to the old republican ways that caused it in the first place? americans have very short attention spans. they usually can only remember about a year ago. they need to remember about four, five, six years ago of who caused this. [ applause ] >> let's go to our first audience member question. derek, you have a question. on the basis of rumors still flying around, the gentleman may run for office in 2016, what is your question? >> well, first, governor, how are you doing? >> good. >> i'd like to thank you for having the guts to serve in our armed forces. i think a lot of politicians and so-called statesmen ought to take a page out of your book. >> well, it's not a requirement. let's be fair.

it's not a requirement to serve in the military, to be the commander in chief because he's a civilian. maybe it's good for a little of experience having done it, but it is not a requirement. the constitution doe't say you have to. >> anyway, we're not here to call you a hero. >> governor, my question is, if you were to run as independent completely unaffiliated, do you feel that would help or hinder your ability to gain valid access in all 50 states? >> it'll require you the people to do it for me. but you know what? i need to see that. i need to see the american people rise up before i'm going to put my butt on the line again. >> when will you put your butt on the line? >> the only way that will help. two criteria must happen. and i also abhor this ridiculous spending they do to get elected. it's obscene. it's obscene.

and i can say that because -- i can say that because when i ran for governor of minnesota, i spent less money to get the job than what i made doing the job. i don't think there's an elected official that can make that statement in the last 50 years. i only raised $300,000 to become the governor of minnesota. the democrats and republicans in the same race spent a combined $12 million. and that was back in '98. >> jesse, will you be running or not, in 2016? >> i don't know. i need to be -- i need to have valid access in all 50 states and i need some type of guarantee that i will be allowed in the debates. because you cannot win if they won't let you debate. but if you can debate, you can win. because in minnesota at the primary, i was only polling between 8% to 10%. i was allowed in the debates, seven weeks later i was the governor of minnesota. you know, they always say, piers, in the private sector competition's good, right?

isn't that what we always hear? well, how come competition isn't good for president. why has it been 20 years since we've seen any third voice in a presidential debate? because these two parties will -- they make the rules and they will not let anyone else win. so i would require huge help from you the people because if i do run and i run to win, i would be the first president elected in this country that would belong to no political party since george washington. the father of our country. [ applause ] >> well, i would -- i would love to see you at one of those debates, actually, jesse. but after the break, we're going to talk to you about osama bin laden and whether a navy s.e.a.l. should be allowed to tell his story as one of the s.e.a.l. team six. [ male announcer ] when a major hospital

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i'm back now with my special guest jesse ventura and our live studio audience. this time oliver reynolds, mr. reynolds.

>> mr. ventura, my question to you as a former navy s.e.a.l., do you agree or disagree with the recently released book by the s.e.a.l. team and the objections of the pentagon? >> i don't have a problem with it. the op was over over a year ago, and i feel i have a right to know what went on. because our entire military is paid by my tax dollars. and i believe i have every right to know what they spend my tax dollars on. and i also would like to hear from boots on the ground. i don't want to hear from the media what happened in the op. i don't want to hear from bureaucrats in washington what happened on the op. i would like to hear from boots on the ground, somebody that was -- that was actually there so i can make a determination -- >> how does it help, jesse, my brother's a british army colonel and has done tours of afghanistan, iraq -- how does it help operationally if all the guys around are all wondering

who's going to put this in a book? surely they all sign up, don't they, to not write about their experiences. >> well, he's out now, he's a civilian now. and i -- i just, you know, to me he has the first amendment right to -- or he should have them. if he's not giving away anything that's listed under national security or could affect anyone in the future operations, i say why not? like i said, i'd like to hear from boots on the ground. what actually happened there. not some fragmented story that comes out of washington telling me what happened. so i don't have -- and besides you, the media, and the s.e.a.l.s themselves have allowed themselves to become like the green berets in the '60s and '70s now. i don't like the fact you know we exist. because back in the '60s and '70s, nobody even knew who we were. well, that's out of the bag now. hollywood's made plenty of films, you've had my friend dick marsinco who created s.e.a.l.

team six, he's written half a dozen books. so if the creator can write books about what they do, what the heck. if he doesn't put in jeopardy anyone, why -- why is our government so up in arms about that he does this? >> what we're all agreed on is that the death of osama bin laden was a good thing. but be honest, is america any safer now than it was when he was killed? or the more we're seeing now in the middle east, all the uprisings, all the kind of reverse arab spring, if you like, are you concerned it may be a hornet nest getting out of control? >> no, because i think a lot of times these uprisings are orchestrated, i believe. i believe in the works of colonel l. fletcher proudy when he said nothing happens, everything is planned. i truly believe th. so these uprisings that are happening right now, we don't know really who is behind them. they could be our own cia. >> did we know -- >> -- helping to do it, who

knows. >> did we know who we were backing? that's one of the key questions. >> backing in what? >> in libya, in egypt. >> i have no idea. >> all of these countries. when you oppose gadhafi or something, do we know who these rebels were? and are we now perhaps seeing the results of not knowing too well who they are? >> well, wanting to give democracy to people who lived, in my opinion in the stone age. i think the bigger question to ask is here we go, another religious war. because most every war that happens on this planet is due to the fact of religion. one religion doesn't like the way another religion worships god, so we're going to kill ya. i love religion. you know, and i say that sarcastically. >> i know. i thought -- >> and i say that because -- i've openly admitted i'm an atheist. >> i thought you said earlier all wars were about oil and corporations.

>> they are, but they're all religious based too. >> they're all about religion and oil and corporations? >> could be. sure. >> and getting rid -- >> well, wait, the wait, the nazis was religious too. look what they did to the jews, that brought religion in, vietnam was religious because diem our puppet president and our country brought 100 christian vietnamese down to the south to be the government. well, the southern vietnamese didn't like these religious characters from up north, so they then became the viet cong. so all wars in my lifetime have had some religious basis, but certainly big business gets in there because wars are very ofitable to certain big businesses, and of course, big business needs to be in the middle east so we can get the oil out of the middle east, so we can get the lithium out of afghanistan. you know they discovered a vein

of lithium there they say is worth $1 trillion. well, what is lithium used for? every cell phone, computer, and soon to be electric cars. let's talk about why we're really there. we're not there -- how has any of these wars affect our freedom in any way? the united states is not in any threat. they're not going to do a normandy invasion on us, al qaeda in virginia. >> you're being quite naive, aren't you? >> i'm not being naive, sir. >> i think you are being naive. >> no. >> i think it's clear one of the main reasons america went into afghanistan was to try and get al qaeda dismantled, the organization which committed the 9/11 attack. >> really? >> you don't think so? >> how come al qaeda put the heroin business out? they took all the poppy growers and stopped the production of heroin. wait. now how much of that illegal heroin was propping up the international banks with laundered money. and when it dried up the first recession happened.

well, now that we're back in there, we aligned with the poppy growers and the heroin business is back up full swing again. i thought we fight a war on drugs here. >> all right, jesse -- >> seems we're not. >> what would you have done on september 12th, 2001. what would you have done if you'd been president? >> what would i have done? i would have done a legitimate investigation to find out what exactly happened on 9/11. how did they know who did this so quickly like they did lee harvey oswald? how quick they knew lee harvey oswald killed kennedy. >> because the people who did it were identified and we knew who th were. >> why couldn't we have stopped them beforehand if they were identified and we knew who they were. >> it's a failure of intelligence. >> no, we knew before. condoleezza rice's memo on august 6th when it sted right in the memo, bin laden to steal planes and run them into buildings and more stuff is coming out now also, how much the bush administration ignored the intelligence.

it was almost like they ignored it because they wanted it to happen. >> oh, come on, jesse. >> no, not, oh come off it. wait a minute -- >> no, no, no -- >> every war starts with a false flag operation. >> you can't in all seriousness sit there and try to make out anybody -- >> let me ask you this, piers, wait a minute. let -- >> -- >> let me ask you something, how much studying have you actually done of 9/11 other than what the government's told you and what mainstream media has told you -- >> a lot, actually. i was in a national newspaper -- >> wait a minute. >> -- every day for five, six months. >> really? really? >> i know a lot about it. >> let me ask you this -- >> you cannot say that any member of the bush administration knew it was going to happen and wanted it to happen. it's a ridiculous thing to say. >> ridiculous. okay. let's talk about your bbc. i have a tape of a bbc reporter broadcasting directly back to england talking about a third building has collapsed, world

trade center building seven talks for seven minutes. all the while she's talking world trade center building seven is still standing right behind her. it didn't fall for another half hour, yet they were doing a prebroadcast back to england -- >> no. >> yes, it's true. that this building fell and it hadn't fallen yet. >> trying to make out the british broadcasting company, one of the most respected news organizations in the world was inventing huge buildings falling over. >> they did. >> you need to have a break, jesse. we'll come back after the break and we'll talk about israel and iran. >> are you kidding me? are you kidding me? this is a fact, my friend. two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. and every day since, we've worked hard to keep it. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help people and businesses who were affected, and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open for everyone to enjoy --

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back with jesse ventura live with our studio audience. we left a heated debate about various theorys you have about 9/11 and so forth. let's move on -- >> and the government only has a theory. >> right. well, the government has factual -- >> theirs is a theory. their theory is 19 islamic radicals defeated our multi-billion dollar air defense

system all while conspireing with a bearded guy in a cave in afghanistan. >> that is exactly what happened. >> that's their theory. >> that's all fact. >> that's their theory. >> no, that's what happened. >> really? >> yes. i'm sorry to kill your conspiracy theorys, but that is what happened. >> then why hasn't anyone been brought up for trial? >> because -- >> given one shred of evidence -- >> they all died in case you missed the story. >> what do we have all of these guys in gitmo for? we've got the supposed confessor to it who they waterboarded 180 times to get the confession. got news for you, piers, if they waterboarded you 180 times, you'd confess to it. >> now you're -- you're missing the point. on that very point, i don't agree with guantanamo bay, i didn't agree with the waterboarding personally. let's move on to iran and israel. if you were the american presidents with all the jungle drums beating about iran, would you take any military action?

>> well, first, let me state that iran has to do this. because if you notice, the united states doesn't mess with any country that's got nuclear capabilities. they only mess with countries that don't. so all countries that don't have it strive to get it because it's a safety mechanism to have it. so, of course, iran's going to try to get the stuff. >> should they be allowed to have it? >> should they be allowed to? i don't know. >> yes or no. >> i don't know. >> you're a man of opinion. entitled to know what you think. >> not right now, you don't. i need to study it more. >> how very convenient. >> yes, it is convenient. >> right now when you have iran potentially nuking itself up, you don't have an opinion. >> well, let's leave that up to the nuclear inspectors that go in there. they will tell us whether they're nuking it up before you decide to bomb them. >> i didn't decide to bomb anybody. >> no, but you seem to be very

favorable toward it. >> -- it's not a very good technique when you're debating to somebody. stick with facts. >> how many political offices have you held? >> none. >> then don't tell me how to debate. because i've held two. >> oh, i've debated many times. >> but you've never won an election where a debate was required. >> i think you've made some very sensible points and you make crack pot points. >> that's your opinion. >> yes. >> how many people here think i make crack pot points. one. how many think i make sensible points? [ applause ] you're in the minority, my good friend. you're the minority. >> i said you made some sensible points. let's go on to another audience question from jared grossman. >> well, governor? >> yes. >> i'd like to know why you think politics in america today, why has it become so polarized, and why has it become so hate-driven? and how do you think we can fix that?

>> well, politics in america, the problem, the major problem is the democrats and republicans as i explained in my book, no more games in government, they've created a system based completely on bribery. now, if we do bribery, it's hypocrisy, if we do bribery in the private sector, we go to jail. yet, their entire political system is based upon bribery. who can bribe and give the most money to the politician and now thanks to our illustrious supreme court that ruled that corporations have the same right as individuals and that money is free speech, well, we're now being inundated with so much money from the corporations buying the democrats and republicans both sides that look at this hypothetically, a foreign country could now control our elections. because all they would have to do is form a corporation, start

pumping money into the super pacs, plus there's no -- they don't have to say where the money comes from. which is criminal. every candidate should have to state openly, open disclosure where they get every dollar. you're not getting that now. so the whole system is corrupted now. the democrats and republicans are at fault because they've been in charge for 150 years, they can't pass the buck on it. and until they clean up the system, that's what you've got, it's bribery. >> jesse, i'm shocked. i've just agreed with every word you've just said. >> no, you just want to get the crowd back on your side. >> that too. as i've said to you -- >> i'm teasing you. >> i've agreed with every word of it. i think the whole super pac thing is completely out of control. and you're right, in the end, china right now could finance a run for the presidential

election with one of their sponsored people from one of their companies. >> i think that this ruling could be the downfall of our country. and the only way -- the only way we can stop it is to amend the constitution. >> yep. i agree. >> that's the only way you can overrule the supreme court and we need to do that. >> let's take a break, jesse. when we come back, we're going to talk about clint eastwood, the empty chair, and gun control. up. a short word that's a tall order. up your game. up the ante. and if you stumble, you get back up. up isn't easy, and we ought to know. we're in the business of up. everyday delta flies a quarter of million people while investing billions improving everything from booking to baggage claim.

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to buying 600,000 rounds of ammunition on the internet. >> mexico has gun control and they had 20,000 people murdered last year. >> america, 11,000 to 12,000 a year. this country has more guns than anybody else and more gun murders. >> yes. >> it's inarguable isn't it? >> not at all. i was in the philippines physically the day ferdinand markos declared martial law and declared himself a dictator.

he gave people two weeks to turn in all their guns or it was the death penalty. why would a dictator do that? the second amendment is there so -- and it was put in there not for hunting and fishing like they like to say, because back when they did it, if you didn't hunt or fish you didn't eat. it was put in there so the citizens would have the ability if their government became oppressive, they could defend themselves against oppressive government. and i think that overrules all the gun deaths. let's remember something, a gun is simply a tool. i have a gun safe at home, and i've never come home and heard those guns going off on their own. people kill people, all right? how many people here die because of car accidents of drunk driving? do we go to the ford motor company and tell them, stop

making these automobiles because people get drunk and kill people in cars? >> it's a facile argument. there's no equivalence between drunk driving and lethal firearms. >> a car is a 2,000 pound projectile that can go 100 miles an hour. >> i have no problem with an american believing that their right under the constitution is that they can defend themselves, especially in their own home if they're being attacked. i have a big problem with a disturbed young man as we saw in colorado being able to buy 6,000 rounds of ammunition and a highpowered assault weapon and go into a movie theater and blow away 70 americans, i have a big problem with that. and nobody else in america in high office seems to share that problem. >> i have a conceal and carry license. had i been in there i would have taken this guy out before he could have killed that many people.

>> well, i think that -- again -- >> let's remember, police can't stop crimes. police show up after they're over. remember that. so when you talk about me not being able -- if there would have been a legitimate conceal and carry in that theater, quite possibly they could have taken this guy out and saved people -- >> or you could have had the gunfight at the ok corral in there and lost even more lives. that's what could have happened. >> what role of the dice would you like? you'd prefer to be unarmed? >> i think this country needs to do something about its gun laws, i really do. >> i don't. there's already enough gun laws. they're already on the books. >> let's come back and give you the last word after this break. hi, i'm phil mickelson. i've been fortunate to win on golf's biggest stages. but when joint pain and stiffness from psoriatic arthritis hit, even the smallest things became difficult.

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my studio audience, twitter is going crazy tonight. rather appropriately. i like this one, the moon landing was faked, apollo 11 landed on jesse ventura's bald head. jesse, as usual, you stirred it all up, how do you want to leave this. you have about 30 seconds to give a final thought. >> i promised a dear friend of mine i would make this statement tonight. republicans are not a political party, it's a mental condition.